Interviewer: Ari Hoffman, Associate Editor, The New York Sun
Compiled and edited by: BitpushNews
In the interview, Sam Bankman-Fried elaborated on his views on FTX bankruptcy, legal battles, the US political situation, and the future of the cryptocurrency industry. He insisted that FTX never went bankrupt, but only suffered a liquidity crisis, and criticized the injustice of FTX bankruptcy administrators and the US judicial system. His case was a "victim" of political struggles, and expressed cautious expectations for President Trump's possible pardon and the future. He also shared some personal insights, such as his experience of falling to the bottom from one of the richest people in the world.
The following is the full text of the interview. For ease of reading, the dialogue content of the interview video has been appropriately organized.
AH: Hi, Sam, this is Ari. It's great to talk to you. We have a limited amount of time, so I want to jump right in. I know you have some thoughts on the current political climate, especially regarding pardons. Also, your prosecutor, Danielle Sassoon, has been in the news recently. Why don't you start by talking about your thoughts?
SBF: Of course, there's been a lot going on recently. As you mentioned, my prosecutor, Danielle Sassoon, was in the news recently for her dispute with the Trump DOJ. My judge at the time, Judge Kaplan, was also a Trump-appointed New York judge, and that played into a larger political battle between the incoming Trump DOJ and what they saw as the Biden DOJ.
That has been compounded by President Trump’s views of the Justice Department, which some in his camp see as becoming increasingly politicized over the past few decades, and especially recently, and by a distrust of the legal system among some in his camp.
AH: Do you think your case is connected to this political struggle?
SBF: That was part of it, but there were many other factors as well. High-profile trials often lead to careers of all the officials involved being affected. I don’t think my case was heard fairly and impartially, especially with some of the decisions made in court.
For example, the judge allowed the prosecution to tell the jury that “all the investors’ money was gone” but at the same time did not allow my defense team to refute this. The fact is, this was simply not true. This became a pivotal point in the trial, and the story the jury heard was wrong.
AH: What do you think of the recent turmoil at the Department of Justice, and in particular at the Southern District Court (SDNY)? Do you think your case also involves prosecutorial misconduct?
SBF: I think there are some similarities. For example, if you look at the sentencing of all the people who pleaded guilty, we have a Republican who pleaded guilty to only a few of the charges, but he got seven and a half years in prison—four times as long as the other three people combined. Meanwhile, the other people who pleaded guilty seemed to be treated more leniently, and the sentencing differences were quite stark.
In addition, prosecutors threatened his wife, who was then a Republican candidate for Congress, with a lawsuit if she did not cooperate. This was highly political.
AH: In the media, you are portrayed as a wealthy man who mainly donates to the Democratic Party, while his donations to the Republican Party are only token. Do you think there is a misunderstanding about your political stance?
SBF: It's a two-way street. In 2020, I did give a lot to the Biden campaign, but partly because I didn't want the Democratic Party to become the party of Bernie Sanders. However, by 2022, my political stance had changed.
I've spent a lot of time in Washington dealing with legislators, regulators, and administration, especially on crypto policy. I'm very disappointed with the Biden administration and the Democratic Party, especially on the issue of cryptocurrency regulation. Their policies are devastating to the entire industry. The Republicans are relatively easier to work with. So, my time in Washington is spent more with the Republicans, trying to stop the Democratic administration from taking over-regulatory measures. The Biden administration is very destructive and difficult to work with. Frankly speaking, the Republicans are more rational. I've spent a lot of time in Washington, DC, trying my best to cross party lines and stop the government from taking harsh measures against the industry.
AH: There's been a lot of talk about the shifting tone around tech giants like Zuckerberg and Bezos, people you should have crossed paths with, do you think, if the trial hadn't happened to you, would you be on stage at the inauguration? Or, let me ask it another way, do you see what's going on? Do you understand it? Or, or how do you see it?
SBF: I obviously can't speak for them, but I think they're seeing some of the same things that I've seen over the last four years. You saw Zuckerberg express something that was meant to be a reasonable, constructive position on government disinformation that ended up being more of just political censorship. I think they're running into some of the same frustrations working with the Biden administration that a lot of people in the crypto industry are finding with anything having to do with commerce and ultimately free speech.
AH: Do you feel your trial was used as a political tool?
SBF: I think to some extent. There are many high-profile cases with similar situations involving prosecutors' careers, media attention and political influence. I don't think this was a fair trial.
AH: What do you think about politicians launching meme coins? Well, have you heard of TRUMP coin? That was launched before his inauguration.
SBF: I've heard of it, but I don't know that much about it because, you know, my sources are somewhat limited in prison. But I'm not surprised to see politicians starting to get involved in the digital space, and you know, I expect that over time we'll see more and more areas of life getting involved, in part because it's a much more flexible medium than traditional finance. That's why the industry is growing so fast and there's so much innovation, for a number of reasons, but one of them is that it's a lot easier to build things in it. The infrastructure is newer and more open.
AH: What do you think of the bankruptcy proceedings? Do you think FTX is really bankrupt?
SBF: FTX never went bankrupt. This was a liquidity crisis, not an insolvency issue. We had enough assets at the time to repay all customers. But because of the takeover by the law firm and the way they handled it, the process became extremely slow and even misled the public.
Customers could have gotten their funds back in November 2022. But it took two years for the administrators to admit there was enough money. They initially claimed there was only $1 billion in assets, but now it has been revealed there are $15 billion in assets. This is a complete failure of management.
AH: What do you think of FTX and Alameda Research’s use of funds?
SBF: FTX is a leveraged trading platform where clients trade on margin. Alameda Research is the main market maker for FTX and plays an important role in the market.
All asset flows can be found in the financial statements. We have clear records of assets and liabilities, and at any time, our assets are always greater than our liabilities. The problem is that the liquidity crisis caused market panic, making it impossible to quickly convert funds into cash.
AH: Do you think you were wrongly convicted?
SBF: Absolutely. Obviously, there are some things I would have done differently looking back at past decisions. But the most important thing is that I should have insisted in November of 2022 that Sullvan & Cromwell take over FTX. I should have continued to deal with the liquidity issues instead of letting them take over and completely mislead customers. But I didn't. You know, after that, it was a painful few years of waiting, not only for me, but also for millions of customers who were wrongly told that there was no money left and didn't get any payment until recently.
This resulted in millions of customers having to wait two years to get their funds back, when in fact their funds should have been safe from the beginning.
AH: I think for most people, you know, the amount of money that you have and deal with is almost unimaginable. What is your relationship to money? I mean, there's been a lot of writing about your interest in effective altruism and all sorts of other things, but you know, from a perspective, what is it like to have that much money? And to suddenly lose it all, what's that experience like?
SBF: I basically divide it into two categories, one is my own livelihood, like personal consumption, from that perspective, my life hasn't changed much. You know, I live on my salary, which is a decent salary, $200,000 a year, but not billions. I haven't changed my lifestyle that much, I really don't have that big of a temptation, I never really understood the meaning of yachting. It was never something that really interested me, instead, I thought about the impact I had on the world.
I basically look at it through the lens of an effective altruist, which is, I have a lot of money to donate, what do I think is the most beneficial thing I can do with it? Some of it goes to, you know, health causes around the world, people, you know, are dying from diseases that they shouldn't be dying from anymore, malaria is just one of them. Some of it goes to animal welfare causes, some of it goes to pandemic prevention causes, and a variety of other causes. And of course, some of it goes to politics. And that's how I think about it on a larger scale, because frankly, you know, there are billions of people in the world, you know, millions of people who die every year from neglected tropical diseases, and this is an area where you can really think about it on a very large scale, in terms of funding, billions of dollars that can actually be used meaningfully.
AH: If you were ever to be free, what would your plans be?
SBF: You know, money is not the most important thing. I don't miss money, but freedom. At present, I am still waiting for the result of the appeal. If successful, I will return to meaningful work, especially in the fields of technology and finance.
AH: If you ever found yourself free again, in any way, I mean, what are some thoughts on what you might do? Would you like to get back into crypto?
SBF: Obviously, it’s very far away and I’ll think seriously about what I want to do in the future even when that time comes, but I try not to think about it too much right now because there’s nothing I can do.
AH: What do you miss most about being in prison?
SBF: Freedom. What I miss most is the ability to access information and make decisions at any time. I used to be working hard to build new things, and now I can only passively wait.
AH: What's next for you? Well, right off the bat, what's your plan for the next few weeks and months? Does it feel like it's going to be the same, or does it feel like there's a narrative arc?
SBF: You know, the days are pretty mundane, um, there's not a lot to do in prison. Um, you know, I'm used to working hard, there's not a lot to do here. But, from a high-level perspective, one thing that's definitely on the horizon is the resolution of my appeal. Um, we have oral arguments, you know, in the next, you know, probably three to six months. Um, you know, I feel cautiously optimistic, but the odds are always against anybody who works in the federal criminal justice system. So, cautiously optimistic just means that I think there's a chance and hope that the judges will be open to giving a careful and critical look at what's going on. And beyond that, prisoners don't really have control over their own lives, so a lot of things happen to me, not by me.
AH: Thank you, Sam. I hope you get a fair outcome soon.
